DISCUSSION FORUM:
feminism and its influence on the portrayal of sexual power



This is an archive page for May 99.

Where reader comments are of interest or where they raise significant points I will publish my response in dialogue pages such as this one. Reader comment excerpts are in black and my replies in red.
Please send your scathing critiques and observations to the email address



From: "dolores" dolores8@ozemail.com.au
Date: Mon, 17 May 1999

I've been looking around your website, and I only have this to offer: Is it analysis? No. It is an obsession that more than anything suggests a pathological undercurrent. You are subliminally obsessed with that object (sic) which your philosophy requires you to renounce: feminism and women.

My advice to you would be this:

A: If you haven't already, move to another city __ FAR FAR away from your bossy Mummy!

B: Get outta that there dang closet boy!!!!!

PS: betcha won't put this one up.

Skip to next entry or continue with my reply.
I don't mind posting your message at all. I no longer take insults too seriously unless they are tinged with hatred. However you appear to think that this deep level psychological barb will traumatise me and cause personal embarrassment and shame. If the contribution had not been made with malice it may have formed the basis for an interesting question. What the hell, I will treat it as that anyway.

Is the site analysis? I suggest it is mostly critical and satirical with an underlying analytical basis. Whether the analysis is deemed insightful is very much interpreted by the individual reader.

Am I obsessive? From the perspective of some people certainly, but the obsessive person rarely sees themselves that way. Sexual politics is one of my passions and I have dedicated enough time to it to become an authority of some substantial knowledge and insight. All people with expertise have to have been obsessive at some stage in their life, in order to distinguish their level of knowledge or ability from the average.

Is the obsession the product of a pathological undercurrent? Probably, but it's gone beyond that. What is most interesting is how a pathological interest can cause so much indignant consternation among other people, often equally pathological in their motivation.

Am I dealing with Freudian problems with a bossy mother? Don't know about that, perhaps you would be kind enough to do some more mind reading. (PS she lives about 45km away. Is it far enough?)

Am I in a darn closet? Perhaps you are suggesting a latent homosexuality. Well only time will tell. I was on the train to work the other day and I noticed this guy with fine soft hair on his sunbrowned taught neck. And for a moment this appreciation made me question the scope of my sexual orientation. But I'll let you know if anything comes of it. I do have the overt profile of a heterosexual male with a typically mildly obsessive interest in women. But as obsessiveness is an archetypal masculine characteristic it should perhaps not be considered abnormal.

(Postscript: the reader informs me that she lifted part of her comment directly from my own site in its reference to Germaine Greer. Very clever. I am humbled.)



From: mkm100 mkm100@york.ac.uk
Subject: The posting below/wages
Date: Sun, 16 May 1999

'Women and children come first'
- I am an adult and object to being classified with children.

'Women don't earn less than men'
- Statistically, the average wage for a working woman is less than that for a working woman, in Britain at least. I'm assuming you live in Australia - find out what the situation is there but I would be surprised if it were particularly different. This difference is generally explained by the fact that more women work in temporary jobs, lower skilled jobs, etc. This is not an excuse, but a problem. Why are women working in lower paid and less skilled jobs?

'the difficulties and dangers of the job... Men do the hardest and most dangerous work in society'
- What a load of rubbish. Could we see some evidence for this ludicrous assertion?

'When women get married they often rely on their husband's wages' - Again, this is a problem that needs to be addressed. Few nineties' women would choose to be reliant on their husband's wage packet. You also seem to believe that whilst the man 'stoically provides for the whole family', the wife is sitting at home with her feet up. You try spending a day at home with two under-five year olds. Marriage is a partnership. You also contradict yourself completely: either women are working as much as men and earning the same or they are housewives relying on their husband for money. You can't have it both ways.

'Female murderers...'
- Compare the rates of prosecutions of male rapists and female murderers. You decide.

'Divorce cases...'
- I agree that there is a bias towards giving the mother custody and that this is a problem. I suspect it results from the fact of too many (male) judges working on your model of the family, which is based on the father working and the mother at home looking after the children. Clearly, feminism (which, at its best, is about deconstructing gender stereotypes to liberate both men and women) still has a lot to do in this area.

'men are virtually visitors in their own home'
- If that's true for you, sort it out. Get more involved in the household chores and childcare duties instead of coming in from work, telling the kids that 'Daddy's tired', opening a beer and flopping down in front of the TV whilst your wife gets you dinner ready.

'[women] have always yielded power behind the curtain'
- I could get very theoretical on you here, and discuss structuralism's identification of the male with the social, cultural and public, and the female with the private and natural. It basically states that women domain and recognition is in the home and the man's in public. This still persists and is extremely reductive, since it is in the public and social spheres that most political decisions are made (which will, therefore, favour men). It is also destructive because it can be extremely isolating for the female - are her only companions to be her children and husband, whilst the man's are his family, his colleagues and his friends? - and the husband who may feel 'a visitor in his own home'. These are stereotypes which feminism is working to combate.

Finally, with reference to you 'day in the life' section, I would like you to return to your newspapers, your radio shows and your magagzines, and count the number of articles which do not specifically refer to women. You will find the vast majority which do not specifically mention gender are about men. This is because male experience is frequently accorded the status of 'universal' experience - ie. what men feel, everybody feels - whereas female experience is rarely assumed to be relevant to no-one except other women.

If you don't want your girlfriend to seduce in the middle of the night, don't have sex with her. She doesn't if she doesn't want to. I suspect you did want to.

Skip to next entry or continue with my reply.
I'm really gettin hammered here aint I!

I have hopefully answered most of the above charges in previous correspondence. I have emailed the reader with a response to some other issues but will leave the above material to stand alone. Perhaps I will come back to it when I'm fully recovered.


From: Lenny Schafer schafer@netcom.com
Subject: Practical Feminism Defined
Date: Tue, 11 May 1999

Feminism is the belief that there is a conspiracy for men to dominate women for purposes of exploitation, thus creating great grievances and/or victims and a class of the male privileged.

The goal is to eliminate perceived grievances by any means necessary, which may or may not include calls for "equality," "equity," "level playing fields," "redefined roles," "reproduction rights," "reparations," or "empowerment".

Calls for "equality" are tactical devices often promoted as goals, but not in any consistent manner. Equality is usually sought when it is perceived to be beneficial to women and resisted when thought it might benefit men at the expense of women.

Thus, the ideology behind feminism is adaptive, situational or opportunistic and can range from egalitarianism to libertarianism to beliefs in female supremacy, human blood sacrifice (abortion), lesbianism and matriarchy.

"Feminism," as it is practiced, is whatever works for mostly bourgeoise liberal white women, for the issue and moment at hand.

My reply.
I like the definition insofar as it goes. However I make the exception on the "blood sacrifice" claim. Perhaps it is irrelevant but this site is pro-abortion, on the basis of both men's and women's rights over that of a featus..featis...pheetis...#@!? unborn sprog.


From: Andrew andrew.brown@bigpond.com Date: Mon, 3 May 1999

The only reason in some cases (very rare) women earn more than men is because of the feminist movement otherwise women would not be in the workforce in general. As for dangerous jobs it is not restricted to the male gender nor should it be-if a person can do the job they should be able to have it, otherwise males would be restricted, ie: males would not be in jobs such as nursing, receptionists, customer service etc.

Women who marry don't often rely on their husband's wages why well as you stated we earn more! Quite often husbands rely on their wife's wages. The alimony thing it is genderless I don't even see this as an issue if has to do with their children, both male and female.

My list could go on and on I think you are very sexist and mixed up in the way you perceive things.

Like men committing violent crimes, making excuses for the men committing them. As I am sure you would agree if my father was denied to see me and went out, shot YOUR whole family your response would certainly change.

Women do earn less than men take a look at sport, and tennis the amount the men's champions get paid to the women's.

As for the voice thing how many female Prime Minister's and Presidents have you seen?

I am sure you would not want your daughter, sister, mother not to be able to do something in life because of your views and the views of men like yours open your eyes to the ninties 1930 is long gone.


Read my reply or Skip to next archive (April)
You make some statements that seem to be held with strong conviction. But the way you approach your argument itself deserves scrutiny. Rather than tackle the lot let's look at one single component and its relevance:

"The only reason in some cases (very rare) women earn more than men is because of the feminist movement otherwise women would not be in the workforce in general."

This statement might be true or false or have a degree of truth. Is it so hard to imagine that some women accrued large amounts of wealth within cultures that allowed such possibilities? You would be correct in saying that any society which denied women the right to earn as much as men would restrict female wealth. But there is little evidence for this. There is also no evidence that liberal societies which allow the private accumulation of wealth have systematically stopped women from accruing wealth, at a rate that regulated it to below that of male wealth.

There have been many periods in history when women have earned more than men. One example that springs to mind is the story of Mohammed, who spent some time under the roof of a wealthy businesswoman. You mentioned that I had some harking for the patriarchal ideals of the 1930s. Well I just happened to finish reading a biography of Dorothy Parker. She's the one who made statements like "A good man is hard to find" or was that Mae West? Anyway, she was also a Hollywood scriptwriter and made $5000 a week as I recall. that was about the same as her husband, although he seemed to work more consistently.

In order for your claim to be true, that women earn less than men it would have to be true that all jobs where women work must have lower wages than men. Where men and women do the same job they must receive less, either by decree of the government or by systematic acts of the company. In neither case have I seen any evidence of this. So, at the very least, in those instances where men from slightly low skilled low paying male jobs have married and fraternised with women who had higher skilled, higher paid jobs, then the women in those instances would earn more. Why is that so hard to accept? It is such a mundane and uncontroversial statement or likelihood and yet is deemed ideologically beyond contemplation. There is no need to theorise feminist causes to draw this simply conclusion.

So even drawing on this level of social logic your adamant claim seems over zealous. This is where I find the psychological orientation of feminists, both male and female, intriguing. They have a religious style commitment to the idea that men are powerful and dominant and women are weak and disadvantaged. No facts or evidence or even contemplation must come in the way of this rule.

I suspect that for the male adherent it gives a sense of benevolent vrituosity. Perhaps it gives you comfort to think that you have recognised women's disadvantage and you have a social justice cause to which you can ally yourself. It is very chivalrous of you. However your sentiment is largely misplaced. If you believe in equal wages for the disadvantaged in general that would be a different story.

I don't have the time to go into the other points you raise but our opinions differ along precisely the same factual and pathological lines. They reaffirm for me the belief that your ideology is misguided. No doubt you view me in the same light.


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